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March 21, 2010
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EDIT: If you like this journal entry, check out The Sarcastic Guide to Writing ebook www.amazon.com/The-Sarcastic-G… for exclusive content on world-building, character, and dialogue!

1.  If the world revolves around your character, they're probably a Mary Sue.  A Mary Sue is, contrary to popular belief, a state of being, not a state of appearance.  A lot of people tend to try and "fix" a Mary Sue problem by having their character be ugly instead of pretty, jerkass instead of sweet, a fat, helpless blob instead of someone who can throw lightning bolts, and stupid instead of smart.  (This is called an Anti-Sue, as opposed to a Purity Sue; many subspecies of Sue exist; just ask TvTropes.)  But, somehow, everyone in the world manages to not comment on her ugliness, bad temper, obesity, or stupidity.  In fact, they try real hard to buddy up to her, even plan their calendars around her, despite what should be obvious unlikability.  Oh, and anyone who tries to call hero out on these things is a bastard, to be shunned by all, no matter how legitimate their argument might be.  This is, in essence, what it means to be a Mary Sue.  Believe it or not, story worlds can actually have stakes other than the hero, and in fact, SHOULD.  Because your reader lives in the real world, and would like to see enough of it reflected in the story to relate to it.  Namely, that since their own life doesn't serve as an axis for the globe, universe, and fate itself, the hero's shouldn't either.  Especially when tragedy for the hero, an individual, can be far outclassed by things like genocide and war.  (Or at least, they always are from this reader's perspective.)  It only gets worse when things like relationship problems or burning one's French Toast are equated with the aforementioned, because, like, oh my God, you're talking about MARY SUE!
2.  If your character has super-awesome-wow skills that have no story relevance, they're probably a Mary Sue.  This goes double for when the skill in question is never even demonstrated properly, leading to Informed Ability, i.e., the author's told us it's there, but hasn't shown us.  Like when Eragon is the best swordsman evar and he keeps getting knocked out in the first book?  Yeah.  Like that.  If your character is a fantastic artist or writer, this can be awfully hard to show, but you as the author should at least work at it.  When less mundane things, like ninja skills or leaping walls, come into play, it just gets worse.  If someone can leap walls, I better see a wall somewhere in the climax, and the leap over it better have something to do with the characters growth arc or something, or I'm gonna be pissed.  Note that something mentioned in passing, like "he rode horses on weekends" doesn't necessarily apply if it's serving some other purpose (like characterization), but most Mary Sue writers tend to gush endlessly about how great their characters are.  (Even without meaning too, bless their stupid little hearts.)  I don't want to see an entire scene of someone practicing ballet if ballet has nothing to do with the story or the character's journey.  Mary Sues are often weighed down by their awesomeness, to the point where it makes the story screech to a halt.  Double points for when a scene serves no other purpose than to demonstrate these unnecessary skills and laud the Mary Sue.
3.  If everyone reacts in terms of your character, they're probably a Mary Sue.  If a nuclear blast went off somewhere, and all the characters can talk about is how much fun it was to chat up your hero last night at the bar, you're in Sue territory.  Believe it or not, real people tend to have multiple priorities, to the point that, yeah, they'll leave a friend in the semi-emotional lurch for the chance to play XBox.  Your characters should, too.  Too many supporting characters prioritize in terms of the Mary Sue: is she happy?  Does she have everything she wants?  Can I get her a soda, just for the chance of a sweet, sweet wink?  (Or in the case of an Anti-Sue, a sweet, sweet spit on the cheek?)  The cast will drop whatever they're doing just for a chance to be near the Mary Sue, twice as fast if she's in some kind of "distress". If your characters are constantly asking after the Mary Sue, always talking about her or something heavily relevant to her ("I heard that French Toast ballet competition is going to be fierce!"), you need to examine the priorities of your supporting cast.  This includes villains, by the way; remember, Mary Sues are defined by an inordinate amount of undeserved attention, and the villain can sometimes be the worst offender.  (My God, could it possibly be Galbatorix's offscreen villainy is due to not caring about Eragon's hissy fits!?  Paolini, you got one right!?) And as always, double points for a character expressly created for a Mary Sue's well-being or what have you, usually a love interest or best friend.
4.  If all obstacles and established laws don't apply to your character, they're probably a Mary Sue.  Oho, is this one ever a doozy.  The Mary Sue flouts all rules and authority, usually flipping a middle finger to it from atop their transforming Lamborghini dragon.  Swordsmanship takes years to learn?  Mary Sue doesn't just get it in two weeks, she masters it.  Reading and building a vocabulary takes years?  Mary Sue writes and speaks like a native overnight.  Need I go on?  It gets better with societal laws!  We all know what rudeness is, right?  Not a Mary Sue!  In her presence: rudeness?  What's rudeness?  Or bragging, for that matter?  Everything she says is beautiful truth, with a honeyed glaze of fact, even if it's a controversial subject with no easy answers!  Please note that this goes for any established law, like the rules of magic (in addition to things like "don't steal" and "follow the school's dress code") that ALSO results in zero repercussions for the Sue in question.  Exceptions are made, the judges all pardon, the cops look the other way without being bribed, the magic works without effort, whatever.  A hero overcoming obstacles is far removed from a Mary Sue playing in her perfect world of no consequences.  Double points if the author sets up these rules for the express purpose of having the Mary Sue knock them down: "No one's ever been able to Master the Staff of Fire, ride a dragon, or turn invisible all at the same time under the age of 50!  Gasp!", or in the case of fanfiction, trouncing the established rules of the canon world just to show that their Mary Sue can.  (We call that a Fixer Sue.  Of course, if you're reading fanfiction, maybe you deserve  it?)
5.  If a society is perfect because everyone in it is, they're probably all Mary Sues. While the sci-fi genre tends to use this on the lesser scale of ham-fistedness, it still, for the most part, can be pretty heavy to have aliens underline and highlight all the shortcomings of humanity.  We can do that just fine on our own, thanks!  With fantasy, this tends to get about a thousand times worse with elves, who never tire, go hungry, or even know the meaning of either.  (Right, like the bastards never had a bad harvest, blight, or storms ... I'll bet.)  Most of the time, lofty attempts to make a society beyond such petty things ends up making them look racist or worse.  Many Mary Sue writers will tend to make a race fantastic and wonderful by the sheer virtue of being what they are: dragon men are awesome on every level, therefore your argument is invalid.  Utopian societies lack conflict, something a story desperately needs, and by introducing a Mary Suetopia into a conflict, you're going to end up making some kind of statement you didn't mean to make. Usually with hilarious results, like facist Suetopia, anti-individualist Suetopia, and my personal favorite, stagnant-civilization-with-no-adaptability Suetopia.  (That one tends to get skewered by world-building logic.  Even a low-IQ dose is lethal.)  The point is, if people in general don't like Mary Sues, what makes you think we, humanity, as a race (and remember our tolerance and equality record, here), would appreciate a race of them?  Even if they had nuclear ray guns and interstellar travel, odds are some idiot somewhere would at least try chucking a spiteful molotov cocktail.  This can be something interesting to explore, and many authors have done so successfully; it's just when one gets into the slapdash type of Mary Sue races that trouble arises. Things like rape, theft, and war have biological, agricultural, economic, and societal reasons for existing, and to think that someone supposedly "solved" all that simply by being a dragon man (or, ahem, certain ten-foot-tall blue-skinned aliens) is aggravating.  In fact, I'd be much more interested in a story that can explain why they don't exist!  And, naturally, double points if an individual character from the race Mary Sues on all of their established laws!  "We do not murder, puny human.  We are far above such petty things."  "Hey, I just dismembered this guy."  "All right, then."
  • Mood: Awestruck
  • Listening to: Take Me Away by Globus
  • Reading: The guardians of Ga'Hoole (Watch the trailer!)
  • Watching: The Big Bang Theory! I LOVE IT!
Add a Comment:
 
:iconcuttingacidity:
CuttingAcidity Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2013
I've read some journals regarding Mary Sues, and I'm not sure if my character is a Mary Sue:
The story is about a girl who is sweet and nice, but then a mysterious person comes and tells her that she is destined to commit a horrible, horrible crime.
While her niceness is part of the story (how is she capable of mass genocide/torture/rape, etc?), I'm starting to reconsider. (BTW she's afraid of crime and such, and accidentally killing a molester scarred her).
Reply
:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2013
Put her through a Mary Sue Litmus test. Google is your friend.
Reply
:iconyellowflowerevy:
yellowflowerevy Featured By Owner Apr 14, 2013  Student General Artist
i kinda want a transforming Lamborghini dragon now...
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:iconfullmetalzergrush:
FullmetalZergRush Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2011
Hahahah Gotta love the point #5. That's apparently what the Communists were trying to achieve - the classless society where private ownership is abolished and everybody has an equal amount. :D Very fun read, you are probably one of the best writers I've ever seen. :) (Yes, I read your other 5 tips Journals, even though there were only a few points I would have to disagree with you on the fanfiction thing). Seriously, keep them coming! You are the hope for literature and graphic novels! :D
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:iconorionswolf:
OrionsWolf Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2011
As I like to call it "Sue-Pidity"
Reply
:iconorionswolf:
OrionsWolf Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2011
As I like to call it "Sue-pidity" XD
Reply
:iconcassiethomas:
CassieThomas Featured By Owner Dec 21, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
Wow, this is the most helpful advice on avoiding Sues that I've ever seen!

Most of the advice people give on this boils down to 'don't make her pretty with a special name'.
Reply
:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Dec 21, 2010
I've noticed that, too. But Mary Sue is a state of being, of environment, not of character per se. Any Mary Sue can be fixed.
Reply
:iconcassiethomas:
CassieThomas Featured By Owner Dec 21, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
Yeah!
Reply
:iconkainmaster:
KainMaster Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2010  Student Writer
And this journal right about sums up why I hate the Big 3 when it comes to animé (Naruto, One Piece, Bleach). None of them is realistic in any aspect of the word. "Well, it's super natrual and fantasy!" you might say but that's no excuse to give Ichigo a power that makes no sense whatsoever that he's capable of using. Naruto learning a technique by training with it for 3 days? Yeah.... No. Luffy ate a Devil's Fruit (or Evil Fruit as the dub calls it from what I've heard, I'unno) and can become rubber and SOMEHOW defy the laws of physics, such as by using his so called "Gear" attacks (which I never DID figure out how they worked, either...)
Yeah. This journal is automatic win. For many, many reasons.
Reply
:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Dec 7, 2010
Wow, it's about dialogue, not world-building. Glad it could still invoke your critique muscles.
Reply
:iconmaria-mar:
maria-mar Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2010
I was re-reading this and had a revelation.

ALL CARE BEARS ARE MARY SUES LIVING IN A MARY SUE WORLD o.O
Reply
:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Aug 6, 2010
At least they don't live in a crappy underworld. I might actually have a problem with it, then.
Reply
:iconmaria-mar:
maria-mar Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2010
Hmmm... who lives in a crappy underworld?
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:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2010
Ah, just my latest rant. But the argument has oft been made that the Care Bears lived in a kind of purgatory and had to make up for sins and ... maybe I should just stop there.
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:iconmaria-mar:
maria-mar Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2010
Ahah kay xD
I thought you were refering to The Princess and the Goblin or something similar. Maybe Planet Unicorn is a purgatory too :P
Reply
:icondongiovar:
Dongiovar Featured By Owner Aug 1, 2010
I want a transforming Lamborghini dragon! (smiles guiltily at Droemar for having a Mary Sue moment)
Seriously, I love how in-depth you get with these- hopefully it'll help get rid of a lot of Sues. And they're just straight-up fun to read too. You've got a great style and a good way of explaining stuff-- and making fun of it :XD:!
I was afraid for a while my main character in my story might be a Sue, but really, in looking at it, while she's a, sort of, better version of me, if you will, she inherited enough flaws that she's just as mortal as me. Now I know what to watch out for, so thanks!
Reply
:icondongiovar:
Dongiovar Featured By Owner Aug 1, 2010
Took aforementioned main character through the litmus test...she scored fairly high, but it was very hard for me to answer some of the questions, because of the circumstances of the story she is in.
Reply
:iconbabyphat268:
BabyPhat268 Featured By Owner Jun 16, 2010  Hobbyist Filmographer
i kno some folks who need to read this >_>
Reply
:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Jun 16, 2010
Send 'em over! I'd be happy to mock them for you. :)
Reply
:iconbabyphat268:
BabyPhat268 Featured By Owner Jun 16, 2010  Hobbyist Filmographer
lol that be nice. there's one famous one though.
do u kno a girl that made a YGO oc named etsuko?
Reply
:iconmorgue-awall:
Morgue-Awall Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
Oh good god. I've seen her. Lure her over here with shiny things.
Reply
:iconbabyphat268:
BabyPhat268 Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2010  Hobbyist Filmographer
i can't. she blocked me for gettin onto her for talkin shit to my friends
Reply
:iconmorgue-awall:
Morgue-Awall Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
I actually saw your comment on her page. Posted one of my own, just to see if she'll hide it. And then I told her that her character needed to put on some weight and some flaws. Hope she gets pissy.That's when it's the most fun.
Reply
:iconbabyphat268:
BabyPhat268 Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2010  Hobbyist Filmographer
yea i found my comment on ED
but yea i cant stand ppl like her. she bashes everyone's OC that's paired with her precious pharaoh
Reply
:iconmorgue-awall:
Morgue-Awall Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
Yep. That's why I don't make fan characters. Too much drama.
Reply
(1 Reply)
:iconandroidgirl:
androidgirl Featured By Owner Apr 25, 2010
Wow. Good stuff. Maybe my stories will actually be halfway decent now... *trying to squeeze all my sues in the basement* Maybe then, I won't have to worry about running out of room...
Reply
:iconwadifahtook:
wadifahtook Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2010
I'm not sure how well the litmus test thing works, especially for non-human animals. XD Ash is definitely more fallible than Sumata, who in turn is definitely more Yoda-ish, yet she scored 6 and he scored 8.
Reply
:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2010
I think that particular test is harder than is necessary. But then, if they scored that low, you're fine anyway.
Reply
:iconwadifahtook:
wadifahtook Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2010
I kinda thought Sumata should score higher as well!
Reply
:iconredmagesalyre:
Redmagesalyre Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2010
If there was a problem I had with the Na'vi it was the apparent "Mary-Suetopia"-ness of their world. As much as I loved the movie and the Na'vi, I was a little distressed with the way their society is protrayed as being pretty perfect and all; I hope that changes with the sequals, but then again there is only so much you can put into a 2-hour movie as opposed to a 200 hundred page novel. As being a student in a class in which we had to create a story for a multimedia format, I was told I had to glean aside stuff as being backstory because I tend to complicate stuff.

My true complaint of MarySueTopias or how stuff can become MarySuetopias if you show just one side of a society that's prominate all the time, and that side is perfect and sweet all of the time, then it becomes a MarySueTopia. You have to show a lot of the society, the good and the bad and the sometimes weird/ugly/mad side. What worries me more is how some of those MarySueTopias can work out, mainly the veganopia ones when you consider the amount of manpower, arable land, water and climate to produce large amounts of vegetables, fruits, and grains to feed a large population and not have them loose sufficent nutrients, proteins, and amino acids. Maybe thinking about these things is the reason why I have problems with veganopias.

I wonder what the next set of tips will be on, they're very useful.
Reply
:iconkrystle-tears:
krystle-tears Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010  Professional Interface Designer
I'm gonna use that last line of yours somewhere...
Reply
:iconmani-mas:
mani-mas Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010  Student Digital Artist
The whole idea of a Mary-Sue can, for me, be summed up by something Robert Heinlein once wrote: "I guess their only fault is that they didn't have any faults. This could get very tiresome."
Reply
:iconjaala:
Jaala Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010
I love your journal series!

Can you take a look at Patrick Rothfuss "in the name of the wind"?
Reply
:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010
I guess I could try to pick it up the next time I'm at the library. The guy who did the map for it is a friend of mine, and we both met Patrick when we were at the Illustrators/Writers of the Future together, because Patrick wrote a winning short story.
Reply
:iconjaala:
Jaala Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2010
0.o...so lucky! I'm a fan of his books! his prose style is amazing and very well written.

You can google for the official website using his name and read the first few pages. :D it'll hook you garenteed!
Reply
:iconomniwitch:
OmniWitch Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010  Professional Writer
It's also important for people to realize that if a character has something that makes them 'special' in a story it doesn't automatically turn them into a sue. It can, obviously, but it can be done right too where it enhances the story, and I think that's what trips most people up. Liiikkeeeee Bella from Twilight vs Danny from The Shinning. No one can read Bella's mind, but so far as I know it does nothing to enhance the story. Danny, on the other hand, is a big time psychic little kid which ends up playing a major part.
Reply
:iconwadifahtook:
wadifahtook Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2010
"You've got the shinning!"
Reply
:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010
You mean 'Shining". Oh crap, I'm gonna get sued! XD
That's exactly right. Bella's lack of thoughts is really not that much of a perk, especially since this is ... well, Bella we're talking about.
Reply
:iconomniwitch:
OmniWitch Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010  Professional Writer
I totally did not misspell one of my favorite books. You saw nothing. :|
Reply
:iconstarhorse:
Starhorse Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010  Professional General Artist
I think you pretty much nailed it on Avatar. Preeettyy...and shallow.
Reply
:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010
I adored the movie, but it's the fandom's reaction that I take issue with. Especially the Navi'kin: people who think they're actually the aliens stuck in a human body. I kid you not.
Reply
:iconmorgue-awall:
Morgue-Awall Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2010  Hobbyist Writer
That's just sad. When a person ceases to be able to separate fantasy from reality, they need to go get help.
Reply
:iconredmagesalyre:
Redmagesalyre Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2010
So they're Avatars of Na'vi... Sorry, I had to say it.
Reply
:iconjaala:
Jaala Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010
0.o...all hail the age of the internet.
Reply
:iconstarhorse:
Starhorse Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010  Professional General Artist
you've got to be kidding me.

I liked the movie too, but more in an...eye candy sort of way. Story was mediocre, but man was the creature design amazing.

Also: notice: I finished the climax scene. All downhill from here, right? RIGHT? *eye twitch*
Reply
:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010
I wish I were.

[link]

It's like a train wreck. Horrible, but you can't look away.
Ha! Denouments can be difficult, too ... 'course, you write kinda weird.
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:iconstarhorse:
Starhorse Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2010  Professional General Artist
o _ 0

is the only response I can think of.
Reply
:iconbrozain:
Brozain Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010
By reading this I found that my main character in my soon to be started novel is NOT a mary sue! This makes me happy.
Reply
:icondroemar:
Droemar Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2010
Take the character through the litmus test! A true trial by fire.
Reply
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